Fitna is a film by Dutch politician Geert Wilders, leader of the Party for Freedom (PVV) in the Dutch parliament. The movie offers his views on Islam and the Qur'an.

Your opinions?

Link to the movie itself:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

Befor any one start to flame on me, but I dont like these films viewing the Islam is a bad religion, I didnt see the film, but I heared about how much it insulted the Islam.

I know there's something called "Freedom of Expression", but these insults to Islam are not considered an acceptable opinions about Islam as a religion.
Plus the offensive draws aganist our prophet "Mohammed" really annoyed me.

Befor any one start to flame on me, but I dont like these films viewing the Islam is a bad religion, I didnt see the film, but I heared about how much it insulted the Islam.

I know there's something called "Freedom of Expression", but these insults to Islam are not considered an acceptable opinions about Islam as a religion.
Plus the offensive draws aganist our prophet "Mohammed" really annoyed me.

Nono. This film DOES NOT insult the islam. It's about the Qur'an. Geert Wilders tells about the things like "If a jew dies we're happy" and "Jews are monkeys" most people don't know about those facts. Geert Wilders just shows that in a movie.

There are muslims, who have seen this movie, and said there's no offense or insulting in this movie.

And what you think the Qur'an has to do with Islam ?

There's a close relation between Islam and Qur'an, so an insult of any of them, will be considered an insult to the other thing.

It's good that they are doing this. For two reasons:

1.) People should have the right to freedom of speech and not have to worry about some dumbass trying to kill them because they said something that he doesnt like (even if it's true).

2.) People should know the truth about what an oppressive, counter-western and overall shitty religion Islam is. I'm not trying to insult anyone who follows it but seeing all the muslims go nuts and swear death and vengance over a cartoon in a newspaper really doesn't do much for it's image.

Also, Zezo, maybe you should actually see the movie before your run your mouth. How can you even talk about it if you havent even watched it?

You should know that there are a lot of Muslims around the world, if such an insult happens, then there will be a very big problem.

If someone wants to say I dont like Islam, that is okay, but not insult it using harsh words like always you do.


People should know the truth about what an oppressive, counter-western and overall shitty religion Islam is
I hoped this thread was not maken for not allowing racist people like you say their opinions here.


but seeing all the muslims go nuts and swear death and vengance over a cartoon in a newspaper really doesn't do much for it's image.

Well I dont care how those images look like for you, but for me and our nation, it mean a lot of insult. So dont try to find an excuse for these fucking newspapers to insult our religion or our prophet.


Also, Zezo, maybe you should actually see the movie before your run your mouth. How can you even talk about it if you havent even watched it?
I heared about this movie as an insulting one to Islam, so dont tell me what to do and what not to do.
Eventhough, after I posted my 1st words in this thread, I watched the movie, a lot of informations are wrong. So this film is not telling the truth. Anti-Islamic people like that Wilders are just trying to stop the expanding of Islam not cause Islam is bad religion as he thinks.

You should know that there are a lot of Muslims around the world, if such an insult happens, then there will be a very big problem.



There are even more bullets in the world so I'm not worried.

Zezo, just because it disscusses the bad about Islam doesn't mean its offensive. Why not try an counter the claims of the movie rather than saying "omg im insulted!".
Becuse honestly, when you do that it brings up the saying "The truth hurts".
...Odd, theres an ad right above where im typing for Muslima.com Ahahahaha!

Also, Zezo, maybe you should actually see the movie before your run your mouth. How can you even talk about it if you havent even watched it?

:iagree: this time he have reason

I hoped this thread was not maken for not allowing racist people like you say their opinions here.

Um, even racists can have an opinion.
And Islam isn't a race anyway.

But having no provocation at all, Zezo, you're getting kinda spicy, so tone it down.
And everyone, watch your words.

This is a messgae from the staff at Liveleak, regarding the video Fitna:


Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.

Its quite apparent that Islam has no regard for Natural rights, and will even go to death threats because someones opinion differs from thiers. They seem to be doing alot of threatening rather than disproving, as we've seen with liveleak and even on this forum.

Amazing

hmm dunno what i can say about this, but the netherlands are pretty ruined by the muslims ;) there are some good ones, of course... but most people arent even talking dutch good enough, if they want to live in a country where its not normall to have a religion like this, i think they better change a bit... :) but it seems that only "we" dutchies can change now...

This thread is becoming more of a question of religion, but what it should be is a question of freedom of speech... I know opinions differ here, but try to keep some respect...


I decided to add to this religious debate I guess. I believe that Islamic Extremists are just taking the words of Islam out of context. Do not think that Christians don't do this either, just look at the Westboro Baptists, hell even Catholicism has executed a huge number of people in the name of Christ, but does that make one group worse than another? The facts are that religion is based on faith, and anyone willing to go to there extremes are nut jobs and missing the true meaning of religion.

Selfishness isn't living to one's own wishes, it's forcing others to conform to yours.

...Odd, theres an ad right above where im typing for Muslima.com Ahahahaha!

lol saw that too :D

but back to the topic:


It's good that they are doing this. For two reasons:

1.) People should have the right to freedom of speech and not have to worry about some dumbass trying to kill them because they said something that he doesnt like (even if it's true).

2.) People should know the truth about what an oppressive, counter-western and overall shitty religion Islam is. I'm not trying to insult anyone who follows it but seeing all the muslims go nuts and swear death and vengance over a cartoon in a newspaper really doesn't do much for it's image.

Also, Zezo, maybe you should actually see the movie before your run your mouth. How can you even talk about it if you havent even watched it?

to 1: I wonder if you would have said that too if the video was contra-USA.
to 2: Calling Islam a shitty religion is just very stupid and ignorant. As I said often before you cant say because of some terrorists that everyone who follows this religion is like that. Proably around 99% of the Muslims are just peaceful people who dont have anything in common with terrorists. The Islam itself doesnt support Terrorism, Violence and War.

lol saw that too :D

but back to the topic:



to 1: I wonder if you would have said that too if the video was contra-USA.
to 2: Calling Islam a shitty religion is just very stupid and ignorant. As I said often before you cant say because of some terrorists that everyone who follows this religion is like that. Proably around 99% of the Muslims are just peaceful people who dont have anything in common with terrorists. The Islam itself doesnt support Terrorism, Violence and War.

I was just about to post something similar.

Most of the Muslim people are no different than you or I. Christianity has extremist groups as well as Islam, and maybe you should inform yourself about Islam before you make such rash claims on Islam being a "shitty religion"

I was just about to post something similar.

Most of the Muslim people are no different than you or I. Christianity has extremist groups as well as Islam, and maybe you should inform yourself about Islam before you make such rash claims on Islam being a "shitty religion"

Where does christianity come into play here? No one denied christian extremists groups, or even mentioned Christianity. Your drawing away from the matter at hand. And while most Muslims may not be extremists, you can't deny that its hard to distingush the two when someone speaks out against Islam.

Where does christianity come into play here? No one denied christian extremists groups, or even mentioned Christianity. Your drawing away from the matter at hand. And while most Muslims may not be extremists, you can't deny that its hard to distingush the two when someone speaks out against Islam.
So now they are bad people because they believe in a religion? One that you may not agree with... And I was just pointing out that very religion has groups that go too far, and that Islam is no different than them.

So now they are bad people because they believe in a religion? One that you may not agree with... And I was just pointing out that very religion has groups that go too far, and that Islam is no different than them.

Er...what?

Calling Islam a shitty religion is just very stupid and ignorant. As I said often before you cant say because of some terrorists that everyone who follows this religion is like that. Proably around 99% of the Muslims are just peaceful people who dont have anything in common with terrorists. The Islam itself doesnt support Terrorism, Violence and War.
Exactly. Islam does not support violence, terrorism, random killing, etc..

Val, when I said that this movie is insulting, I was meaning it and I am gonna show you why.
This movie was made by non-Islamic people, so they even dont know about 40% of this religion.
When it was picking some Sura and certain Verse. Was followed by a comment ( Opposing one ). And the fact that the holy Qur'an's Suras and Verses are greatly related to each other, so you cant cut some of them and comment. You have to read and understand the Verses befor and the ones after the one you picked. So this movie was just trying to stop the expansion of Islam.

Talking about Islam extremities, well there are Christian extremities too.
I remember there was a Christian Invasion "Crusade" to Egypt in the old nations, those fags were hiding under the name of "Christian" religion. Is that an acceptable to you Val ? Now compare those with the current terrorists. They are the same, non of each make any religion shitty one like what you said with complete stupidty.

If there are extremities of some religion, that does not mean this religion is shitty and calls for violence and terrorism.


if they want to live in a country where its not normall to have a religion like this, i think they better change a bit...
There is not any relation between what you said and this thread. There (Netherlands) are some arabian christians too, so Islam has nothing to do with what you said.



I know opinions differ here, but try to keep some respect...

Saw this Val ? I hope you take it serious to keep this thread clean without turning into a flammy thread.

Blah, Blah, I'm getting tired of this Islam discussion.
Now I can say I feel insulted cause Aribic countries wan't to break with The Netherlands, that's like the same with the Islam discussion, One Dutch man does something wrong then there all wrong, looks like the Islam discussion.

Blah, Blah, I'm getting tired of this Islam discussion.
Now I can say I feel insulted cause Aribic countries wan't to break with The Netherlands, that's like the same with the Islam discussion, One Dutch man does something wrong then there all wrong, looks like the Islam discussion.

what...?....i mean what happended witha a dutchie?

i want to know :D.

i dunno man, this whole flame is hard.

i wont say nothing till i see some more :P.:cheers:

Blah, Blah, I'm getting tired of this Islam discussion.
Now I can say I feel insulted cause Aribic countries wan't to break with The Netherlands, that's like the same with the Islam discussion, One Dutch man does something wrong then there all wrong, looks like the Islam discussion.


Well, I dont know but the Dutch Government should have prevent this movie from publishing.

Like what happened with Denmark and Norway ( dont remember if Norway was included in this or not ), those newspapers which showed bad images about Prophet "Mohammed" were not prevented from being showed or any other situation was taken, which means that these countries agree with the insulting of Islam.

I think the same happened with Netherlands. I am not sure though.

Well, I dont know but the Dutch Government should have prevent this movie from publishing.

Like what happened with Denmark and Norway ( dont remember if Norway was included in this or not ), those newspapers which showed bad images about Prophet "Mohammed" were not prevented from being showed or any other situation was taken, which means that these countries agree with the insulting of Islam.

I think the same happened with Netherlands. I am not sure though.

What the hell Zezo! Just becuse something doesn't "sit right" with you doesn't mean it should be banned. Do you realize how bland the world would be if people thought like you? Get real and grow up.

Well, I dont know but the Dutch Government should have prevent this movie from publishing.

Like what happened with Denmark and Norway ( dont remember if Norway was included in this or not ), those newspapers which showed bad images about Prophet "Mohammed" were not prevented from being showed or any other situation was taken, which means that these countries agree with the insulting of Islam.

I think the same happened with Netherlands. I am not sure though.

Ooh shit oil is bad for the earth lets ban it!

Its called freedom of speech, I live in a free country you can say whatever you wan't but you need to say it the right way.

What the hell Zezo! Just becuse something doesn't "sit right" with you doesn't mean it should be banned. Do you realize how bland the world would be if people thought like you? Get real and grow up.

I do have to agree with you, the material should not be banned or censored. In the free world, we have th freedom of speech, and it should be exercised. Silencing it for the sake of a religion would be ridiculous. Though you sure as hell don't have to agree with them, you can't blame them for exercising their personal freedom.

Huggy you hypocritical fag. Stop deleting my posts lol. Freedom of speech!

hummm.... i didnt have the chance of check the vid anyway this getting crazy as usual..

anyways i gonna put my spoon in this :D

im a lover of all the cultures, each have something and all the ppl have the right to decide what religion they gonna follow.

but religion its about faith, about try to find an explanation to the things that are out of our limits; NOT for killing others because they think different.


about catholic crusades, its the past, the pope johanes paulus II have ask apologizes for all the mistakes of the religion IN THE PAST.roman catholic religion have not violent groups. if theres any, vatican expell em from the religion, wich is the maximum punishment in the religion. talking about crusades is like judging eva, or moises...


about muslim. ive never studied this religion. but i have friends that r muslims and they are normall ppl, but some of their friends have this bad feelings :S and its weird, i think is completly ridiculous to attempt agains somebody life, just because he dont share ur faith.


now IF SOME OTHER COUNTRY IS INVADING, OR HAVE POLITICAL PROBLEMS, WAR AND FIGHTING IS THE USUAL HISTORIC WAY TO SOLVE IT (its true even when im against it).

freedom of speech MUST BE PROTECTED, because we r not slaves, and if we have to fight for that THATS A REASON FOR FIGHTING.


uff i take it out......

Huggy you hypocritical fag. Stop deleting my posts lol. Freedom of speech!

Aye, we have a limitation on our freedom of speech! While expressing out freedom of speech we cannot do so in certain ways. You probably took a basic Gov class, you should know! : P

humm... i just checked the video.... well its awful to see that.

how gay can be a human.... killing an tied hands old man.

thats disturbing from the movie.... now, ive seen a lot of gayness like that as Colombians, Mexicans or Salvadorians drug dealers, putting a gun in the head of a woman and pulling the trigger in front of her son and her husband cuz one of them own something to the dealer. thats gay 2.

ignorance is heavy..... how can i follow a religious leader that tell me i have to kill somebody that not believe in my god, OMFG, ITS SHIT!

Im thinking... i gonna take my rifle, gonna found some jews, Buddhist, may a couple of hare Krishna and then i gonna kill them, then gonna put the vid on youtube cuz they are against my believes! how they can breath the air that my dear god let for us, his sons...... TOTAL BULLSH@T

a little sarcasm sorry.. cant hold it.

And ill be against anything that cut human rights......

humm... i just checked the video.... well its awful to see that.

how gay can be a human.... killing an tied hands old man.

thats disturbing from the movie.... now, ive seen a lot of gayness like that as Colombians, Mexicans or Salvadorians drug dealers, putting a gun in the head of a woman and pulling the trigger in front of her son and her husband cuz one of them own something to the dealer. thats gay 2.

ignorance is heavy..... how can i follow a religious leader that tell me i have to kill somebody that not believe in my god, OMFG, ITS SHIT!

Im thinking... i gonna take my rifle, gonna found some jews, Buddhist, may a couple of hare Krishna and then i gonna kill them, then gonna put the vid on youtube cuz they are against my believes! how they can breath the air that my dear god let for us, his sons...... TOTAL BULLSH@T

a little sarcasm sorry.. cant hold it.

And ill be against anything that cut human rights......

Fucked up ain't it? And all because somebody doesn't believe in their religion. Once again, it's good that they posted the video and fuck all those muslim fags who want it banned. Freedom of speech for all!!!

hummm.... i didnt have the chance of check the vid anyway this getting crazy as usual..

anyways i gonna put my spoon in this :D

im a lover of all the cultures, each have something and all the ppl have the right to decide what religion they gonna follow.

but religion its about faith, about try to find an explanation to the things that are out of our limits; NOT for killing others because they think different.


about catholic crusades, its the past, the pope johanes paulus II have ask apologizes for all the mistakes of the religion IN THE PAST.roman catholic religion have not violent groups. if theres any, vatican expell em from the religion, wich is the maximum punishment in the religion. talking about crusades is like judging eva, or moises...


about muslim. ive never studied this religion. but i have friends that r muslims and they are normall ppl, but some of their friends have this bad feelings :S and its weird, i think is completly ridiculous to attempt agains somebody life, just because he dont share ur faith.


now IF SOME OTHER COUNTRY IS INVADING, OR HAVE POLITICAL PROBLEMS, WAR AND FIGHTING IS THE USUAL HISTORIC WAY TO SOLVE IT (its true even when im against it).

freedom of speech MUST BE PROTECTED, because we r not slaves, and if we have to fight for that THATS A REASON FOR FIGHTING.


uff i take it out......

good job villey :D

if we cant think and believe in what we want then we are not humans! AND if any idiot want to meake me think what he wants and if i dont want to believe it gonna kill me OKAY..... ill fight for what i want! and thats why there has been so many wars and stuff FOR FREEDOM! and i really meant to fight for something that i want.

:D but if ppl respects my shit i gonna respect theirs.

What the hell Zezo! Just becuse something doesn't "sit right" with you doesn't mean it should be banned. Do you realize how bland the world would be if people thought like you? Get real and grow up.

Well, It's not my fault that you didnt understand me the right way.
I didnt say that people cant say their opinion about Islam because it's my religion, but what I said, is when you say your opinion about something, you should say it in the right way without any insulting causes the other side becomes angry.
If you dont like Islam, then say "I dont like Islam" but dont start to insult it and say it's shitty religion like Val said.
There's a big difference between "Freedom of Speech" and "Insulting under the name of Freedom of Speech". Those tow are totally different and all people should know that so that they dont think that muslims are narrow-minded people and dont like freedom of speech.


Its called freedom of speech, I live in a free country you can say whatever you wan't but you need to say it the right way.
Exactly.



i think is completly ridiculous to attempt agains somebody life, just because he dont share ur faith.
Right. But Muslims are not attempting aganist anybody's life, we just dont like anyone to insult our prophet or our religion. That's all.


it's good that they posted the video and fuck all those muslim fags who want it banned. Freedom of speech for all!!!
Once again, this movie was not saying its opinion about Islam in the right way, but only insulting. So banning it is better for the whole world. For us Muslims that we dont like our religion to be insulted that way, and another thing for not incoming wars and no troubles in Netherlands. I am not supporting these wars, but I am saying it will happen if insulting aganist Islam is not stopped soon.

Peace.

I am not supporting these wars, but I am saying it will happen if insulting aganist Islam is not stopped soon.

Peace.

Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahha you wish biatch!!!!

If you dont like Islam, then say "I dont like Islam" but dont start to insult it and say it's shitty religion like Val said.

There's a big difference between "Freedom of Speech" and "Insulting under the name of Freedom of Speech". Those tow are totally different and all people should know that so that they dont think that muslims are narrow-minded people and dont like freedom of speech.



Right. But Muslims are not attempting aganist anybody's life, we just dont like anyone to insult our prophet or our religion. That's all.


I am not supporting these wars, but I am saying it will happen if insulting aganist Islam is not stopped soon.


:omg: :O


So you are telling me if i say fuck that religion, some of those fuckers can come and kill me or make war against my country... thats really HEAVY BS.

I mean if ALL UR COUNTRY say in one voice, fuck jesus!! jesus is ghey!!!! or fuck the vatican, or shitty catholics, or please catholics kill yourselves..... i wont say oh yeah they r insulting my religion lets ask uncle sam some nukes cuz they skin have to burn!

:nonono:

everyone can say shit, whatever! if lots of ppl listen is because the guy is right or he have really good voice.... and if you want to complain, do it, if u r right the public opinion will decide....

AND DONT COME WITH NONO MUSLIMS DONT KILLED PPL, BECAUSE THATS REALLY HARDCORE BULLSHIT, IVE SEEN REPORTERS, AND PPL DYE FOR THAT FOR THE CRAZY AND SENSELESS IDEAS OF SOME EXTREMIST ASSHOLE, THAT BELIEVE IN WHAT A STUPID FUCKER SAID IN A RELIGIOUS MEETING.

Don, very nicely put man. I'm genuinely impressed. Good post.

Zezo, thats complete bullshit and you know it. Your original post say that the Dutch government should have prevented that movie bieng published, but now you are saying that Val can't say "its a shitty religion". Which one is it man? Your getting caught in your own hypocracy, just like Islam is.

Hmmm well because I didnt know much about the Quran, what is really in there.. i started reading, but I stopped quickly because what it says is pretty heavy bs.... Ok, maybe I read the wrong things and this is not a good picture of the entire Quran. But I did see really many things about killing...

But why do they talk about that in the Quran? There are a lot of things in it about war and killing...

The Bible only says things about war like: "Ask every effort to live in peace with everyone"

It seems that if we say things about your religion they all want to fight against it, i mean really fight.
If you say things about Catholics... well I just wouldn't listen.... or just ignore you ;)

So you are telling me if i say fuck that religion, some of those fuckers can come and kill me or make war against my country... thats really HEAVY BS.


And why would you say fuck that religion ?
If you dont like it, then you can say it with a good way which will not hurt the people who believe in it. You must respect others' beliefs and dont insult it, and this is not cancelling your opinion.
What if I insulted you, your mom, dad, etc..? Will you say it's okay, that's your opinion ? I dont think so.
Same way in religion, we like our religion and dont want anyone to insult us or our religion, that does not mean that we dont accept others' opinion. Completely different. And you got to understand that.


I mean if ALL UR COUNTRY say in one voice, fuck jesus!! jesus is ghey!!!! or fuck the vatican, or shitty catholics, or please catholics kill yourselves..... i wont say oh yeah they r insulting my religion lets ask uncle sam some nukes cuz they skin have to burn!

I will never say "Fuck Jesus", cause in Islam we respect all other religion but only the ones come from God, like Islam, Christian and Jewish.



everyone can say shit, whatever! if lots of ppl listen is because the guy is right or he have really good voice.... and if you want to complain, do it, if u r right the public opinion will decide....

Well, there are limits you have to put them in your head. Dont insult something, which will hurt someone feelings. If you dont put this in your mind, then you dont have respect in your personality.



Zezo, thats complete bullshit and you know it. Your original post say that the Dutch government should have prevented that movie bieng published, but now you are saying that Val can't say "its a shitty religion". Which one is it man? Your getting caught in your own hypocracy, just like Islam is.

What is the paradox between saying that Dutch government should have prevented that movie being published and saying Val cant say "its a shitty religion" ?
I am not getting caught in my hypocracy, you just cant undersant what I am trying to say, that's not my fault that you got something wrong in your thinking.
And dont say "just like Islam is", dont insult my religion.



but I stopped quickly because what it says is pretty heavy bs.... Ok, maybe I read the wrong things and this is not a good picture of the entire Quran. But I did see really many things about killing...

Well, as I said befor, it's not that easy to get what Qur'an says in the right way, just like what happened in this movie.
Same here, if I read the "Gospel" ( I dont know if it's the right word ), I am sure I will think it's bs like what you first thought about Qur'an, the first impression is always wrong.


Finally, guys please keep this clean, without insults, I mean it. I dont like to be insulted.

In the modern world, we have freedom of religion and the freedom of speech. As an American I exercise both of these rights with dignity and nothing can take that away from me, except Irish...

On another note... Have any of you Islam bashers even read the Koran? The fact is there are many good moral lessons in these texts and it is there to provide a moral backbone for the Muslim society. If you have not read them I will kindly as you to shut the fuck up because frankly you are the ones who are being close minded by not informing yourself on other's cultures.

In the modern world, we have freedom of religion and the freedom of speech. As an American I exercise both of these rights with dignity and nothing can take that away from me, except Irish...

On another note... Have any of you Islam bashers even read the Koran? The fact is there are many good moral lessons in these texts and it is there to provide a moral backbone for the Muslim society. If you have not read them I will kindly as you to shut the fuck up because frankly you are the ones who are being close minded by not informing yourself on other's cultures.

Obviously you have no idea wtf you are talking about. No one is denying that Islam is a normal religion (like Christianity and Judaism). Clearly it will have some good moral lessons. There is nothing wrong with the Koran (except for the parts about violence).

The issue at hand is that people take these teachings out of context and use them to justify brutality towards others (Jews and Americans). The video makes this quite clear. It is not acceptable to kill someone just because he states his opinion and it doesn't match yours. For example, I may not agree with what you just said and I may even call you a fucking dumbass but I won't kill you for it no matter how badly I may want to. Why? Because it's simply not right. Even someone like you doesn't deserve to die for being stupid. You see how it works? Live and let live.

Obviously you have no idea wtf you are talking about. No one is denying that Islam is a normal religion (like Christianity and Judaism). Clearly it will have some good moral lessons. There is nothing wrong with the Koran (except for the parts about violence).

The issue at hand is that people take these teachings out of context and use them to justify brutality towards others (Jews and Americans). The video makes this quite clear. It is not acceptable to kill someone just because he states his opinion and it doesn't match yours. For example, I may not agree with what you just said and I may even call you a fucking dumbass but I won't kill you for it no matter how badly I may want to. Why? Because it's simply not right. Even someone like you doesn't deserve to die for being stupid. You see how it works? Live and let live.

I understood the part about the whole freedom of speech and was not addressing you, more the general thread who would seem to disagree with you on the idea that Islam is a normal religion...

That is exactly what I am trying to say.


Man you are simply showing your stupidity. I told you befor Islam is not calling for violence. This movie was just trying to make a bad image of Islam. I know Qur'an and know what it says, you dont know what is in it, so dont say something without reading about it. Period.

Maybe you should try quoting the Koran on some non-violent verses?

Maybe you should try quoting the Koran on some non-violent verses?
It is too hard for me to translate in English.


The movie provided verses of violence
You cant cut one verse and comment, you must read the whole Surah.
Qur'an's verses are too related to each other.

I deleted a whole load of posts, bless the little "Select All" option.

Post deletion and thread closing is not a good thing, it demonstrates your inability to express your ideas like an adult. If you have a problem with a post REPORT IT http://www.gamingperfection.com/forum/images/buttons/report.gif, that's why I enabled the feature. If that's not satisfactory enough for you, add a user to your IGNORE (http://www.gamingperfection.com/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist) list. If this continues people will have their access to here revoked, threads shouldn't be locked for everyone because of only a few.

These are general comments aimed at everyone, let all previous comments be forgotten and let's start again with a fresh start.

------------------------


You cant cut one verse and comment, you must read the whole Surah. Qur'an's verses are too related to each other.

The point is, verses are taken out of context by extremists. They do use such verses in an attempt to justify their terrorist actions.

If their actions aren't of a true Muslim, then it would suggest that the Qur'an isn't been taught properly within the Muslim community, never mind elsewhere. Perhaps that is the real issue that needs to be addressed.

omg looks like somebody clened this, wich i found ok.... to hot last night.

-----
agree with irish and i guess thats what we r looking for here, but the problem is that no one say if its true, if its just a group that its completly out of the line of the koran :S

Well Irish you are always the most adult here. I liked your post and I appreciate it.


The point is, verses are taken out of context by extremists. They do use such verses in an attempt to justify their terrorist actions.

If their actions aren't of a true Muslim, then it would suggest that the Qur'an isn't been taught properly within the Muslim community, never mind elsewhere. Perhaps that is the real issue that needs to be addressed.

When Qur'an tells us to fight, it didnt tell us to kill everyone who are not in our religion, that is completely wrong. Islam is the religion of peace. It does not call for wars like you all think.

About some extremities taking out some verses and do their terroristic actions. Well. When you take the Palestinian-Israeli issue as an example you will find ;

- When Israel kills innocent people, women and kids, these families of innocent victims are drove so mad and angry, that makes them go out of their mind and do terroristic actions. These people in same time they know what Qur'an tells them to do. And they are doing what it tells to do, they face their enemies ( Israeli soldiers ) and that does not make them terrorists. But killing innocent israeli civillans is not something caused by "Something Qur'an tells us to do" or "Qur'an being not well understood by these people" but these actions are because like I said befor, when you got someone who you love killed! You are getting mad and make something out of your feelings.
So dont put Qur'an as a terrorist textes calling for killing innocent people.

Perhaps you guys should read more about the real Islam and what it does call for instead of building your opinion on a shitty movie like this one.

Well Irish you are always the most adult here. I liked your post and I appreciate it.



When Qur'an tells us to fight, it didnt tell us to kill everyone who are not in our religion, that is completely wrong. Islam is the religion of peace. It does not call for wars like you all think.

...These people in same time they know what Qur'an tells them to do. And they are doing what it tells to do, they face their enemies ( Israeli soldiers ) and that does not make them terrorists.

...Perhaps you guys should read more about the real Islam and what it does call for instead of building your opinion on a shitty movie like this one.

This isn't about the movie anymore, cause we all know what is in there is really overdone. But I wonder why Qur'an tells you to fight, as you say.... and i read it.. it really tell you to fight, not to torture, but better kill. But that isn't normall. Fight can never be a good way to handle problems ;) you should know better.... I still wonder why there are things in Qur'an that wants you to fight back! So explain me why it says things like that, you think it's good to fight if someone has done something to you or your family??

...Perhaps you guys should read more about the real Islam and what it does call for instead of building your opinion on wars and fights, cause the toughts about that in the Qu'ran are just some crappy shit :) And will never make this world better.

By logic Simok, If someone killed your father. Wouldnt you kill him ?

No, i want to get him in jail....for really long but not kill him. Maybe he will lern about it then...

This is getting really weird. First you said that Islam was a peaceful religion, now you're saying that it supports vindictive killings (not in Christianity). Which is it man?

EDIT: It seems that nearly all muslims accuse the extremists (ones who take scripture from context) of giving Islam a bad name. But yet you try and justify their reason for doing it! I've come to believe that muslims don't hate the radicals, but just regard them as a moderate democrat would a liberal.
Its pretty supicous.

Well... the point is, that the Qu'ran isn't telling the muslims that killing is bad. But it's on solution for problems, and a better one for fights than torture. So it's getting too normal for them to solve problems with killing.

Well Irish you are always the most adult here. I liked your post and I appreciate it.



When Qur'an tells us to fight, it didnt tell us to kill everyone who are not in our religion, that is completely wrong. Islam is the religion of peace. It does not call for wars like you all think.

About some extremities taking out some verses and do their terroristic actions. Well. When you take the Palestinian-Israeli issue as an example you will find ;

- When Israel kills innocent people, women and kids, these families of innocent victims are drove so mad and angry, that makes them go out of their mind and do terroristic actions. These people in same time they know what Qur'an tells them to do. And they are doing what it tells to do, they face their enemies ( Israeli soldiers ) and that does not make them terrorists. But killing innocent israeli civillans is not something caused by "Something Qur'an tells us to do" or "Qur'an being not well understood by these people" but these actions are because like I said befor, when you got someone who you love killed! You are getting mad and make something out of your feelings.
So dont put Qur'an as a terrorist textes calling for killing innocent people.

Perhaps you guys should read more about the real Islam and what it does call for instead of building your opinion on a shitty movie like this one.

Let's just say Israeli soldiers do kill civilians on purpose, they don't do it quoting the Old Testament. When 9/11 and 7/7 happened, it was because the extremists believed they were doing the will of Allah. It's not me taking the Qur'an out of context, it's extremist Muslims taking it out of context.

It's not me giving Muslims a bad name, it's not Geert Wilders giving Muslims a bad name, it's extremist Muslims giving Muslims a bad name.

Simok...I respect your opinion but this cant be applied on the example I gave. Can you put all those soldiers who killed innocent palestinians in jail ? Plus that fucking UN is not achieving any justice in the area which for sure leads to un-satisfication from one side then wars and trouble, also if UN said something it does not do it. So no one can give palestinians their rights, so they should depend on themselves taking their rights.

Irish...You explained a good point. Now tell that to those who think Islam is a bad religion. Period.


Solid...You even dont know what are you talking about. I didnt support terrorists to do such actions, but I support palestinians to kill Israeli soldiers not innocent civillans under the name of "Facing enemy".

Last thing, those who whines about "Freedom of speech" they dont know anything about freedom cause they think Israel has the right to be in Palestine.

Simok...I respect your opinion but this cant be applied on the example I gave. Can you put all those soldiers who killed innocent palestinians in jail ? Plus that fucking UN is not achieving any justice in the area which for sure leads to un-satisfication from one side then wars and trouble, also if UN said something it does not do it. So no one can give palestinians their rights, so they should depend on themselves taking their rights.

Irish...You explained a good point. Now tell that to those who think Islam is a bad religion. Period.


Solid...You even dont know what are you talking about. I didnt support terrorists to do such actions, but I support palestinians to kill Israeli soldiers not innocent civillans under the name of "Facing enemy".

Last thing, those who whines about "Freedom of speech" they dont know anything about freedom cause they think Israel has the right to be in Palestine.

Im not going to argue with you again about how Hezbollah is a terrorist orginization. If you want to live in your world of misconceptions and idiocracy than do so.



Last thing, those who whines about "Freedom of speech" they dont know anything about freedom cause they think Israel has the right to be in Palestine
Again you bring up this bullshit. You're dodging the point, were arguing freedom of speech and how the majority of the Muslim population is trying to suppress it, not how Israel is supressing the freedoms of Palestinians. If you're not going to stay on topic than im going to stop replying, because its like arguing with a child.

Muslims do not suppress freedom of speech, we just dont want anyone to insult us using wrong info.

Isnt the freedom for Palestine is a subtype of freedom ? Or you only choose one from all the meanings of freedom to fit your words or support your saying ?

Muslims do not suppress freedom of speech, we just dont want anyone to insult us using wrong info.

Isnt the freedom for Palestine is a subtype of freedom ? Or you only choose one from all the meanings of freedom to fit your words or support your saying ?

But they are using direct quotes from the Qu'ran. Are you saying this information is all false and that it is not what the books say?

Muslims do not suppress freedom of speech, we just dont want anyone to insult us using wrong info.

Isnt the freedom for Palestine is a subtype of freedom ? Or you only choose one from all the meanings of freedom to fit your words or support your saying ?

Well, If there is a child here it would be you to who I am repeating something and still dont have the good mentality to get what I am saying, plus when you stop talking it will be good for me instead of seeing your stupid opinions and bothering myself in repeating what I say.


this is like being lost in a forest and finding the same tree over and over again.

zezo (and im writing this to: ZEZO) you always come with that " you are stupid, you are insulting me" etc, which, if you are so grow as u have said, you only could laugh, and rebate the opposite idea. (wich would be the better to do by all of us)

now about the subject.

Definitely the koran have violent part, just let me translate it for u so u all can read it,:smart: now there is a lot of other good stuff and great learning for anyone.

now is there fuckers messing the religion view, hell yeah! and they are leaders! and lot of ppl follow them wich sux, but theres other groups that are normal, look for the peace of the ppl and all that stuff and thats really good.

now about koran attacking freedom and ppl saying what the world have to say, thats wrong... yeah freedom of speech don't give you the right of insulting ppl, but also you are free to do so, and for that nobody can say oh you said that i gonna kill you.. thats bs AND THAT WHAT IM AGAINST AND ILL NEVER SAY OH YEAH U R RIGHT....

now if some fucker come and kill ur ppl because of they believes, u also have the right of defend them AND REVENGE!. as koran says

AND JUSTICE FOR ALL

HB..I said this befor, you cant cut some verses and translate it, even translation is not enough to get what Qur'an is saying.

DV..Yes I am talking as a man not like Val who is always run to insult, yeah may be I say "you are stupid" and this stuff but this is when I found Solid saying something I didnt say. Also, if laughing acts as a good reply for you so may be you should have laughed all over the thread instead of writing these colourful words.

There's no violent part in Qur'an textes. Dont imagine something or base your opinion on such stupid movie. What is the problem in killing a man who killed your father if you cant put him in jail ? Whats the violence in this ? Whats the violence in killing some israeli soldiers who steal lands they dont own, randomly kill innocent people, rape women, torturing, etc...
If your country has been occupied wouldnt you defend it and try to kill your enemy or you would say "No worries" ? Dont say that facing your enemy is violent action or then you dont know anything about freedom which you are whining about.

I dont know you posted something may be videos but I cant see it now cause I am on mobile.

HB..I said this befor, you cant cut some verses and translate it, even translation is not enough to get what Qur'an is saying.

DV..Yes I am talking as a man not like Val who is always run to insult, yeah may be I say "you are stupid" and this stuff but this is when I found Solid saying something I didnt say. Also, if laughing acts as a good reply for you so may be you should have laughed all over the thread instead of writing these colourful words.

There's no violent part in Qur'an textes. Dont imagine something or base your opinion on such stupid movie. What is the problem in killing a man who killed your father if you cant put him in jail ? Whats the violence in this ? Whats the violence in killing some israeli soldiers who steal lands they dont own, randomly kill innocent people, rape women, torturing, etc...
If your country has been occupied wouldnt you defend it and try to kill your enemy or you would say "No worries" ? Dont say that facing your enemy is violent action or then you dont know anything about freedom which you are whining about.

I dont know you posted something may be videos but I cant see it now cause I am on mobile.

But again this is not just a question, but of freedom of speech...

damn so he typed all that on a phone O.o, i came in late in this conversation, but wat zezo says has truth to it :)

Movie is very accurate and has been verified by numerous sources, even those of Islamic origin. It candidly portrays the savagery of radical Islam and shows what the liberal western media has been averting from for years. These are the facts:

1.) There is real danger because they hate us much more than we think. They will lie and use any excuse to show otherwise but their actions (those shown in the movie) speak for themselves. Recall the nazi regime and the 1930's. This is no joke. The next 911 is imminent, only it could be much worse this time.

2.) Radical Islam is perhaps the greatest danger to the western civilization since the inception of the nazi extermination protocol.

3.) Because of the ridiculous antisemitic bias of a vast portion of Europe, radical Islam is being used as a tool to destabilize Israel.

4.) What can you do? Don't be a fool. there is no distinction between the violence against an "infidel" in the Koran and the violence against an American or Israeli soldier in the battlefield. They will try and justify it by saying its Jihad or some other bullshit but the fact is violence is violence.

5.) Make sure such movies keep coming out. Fuck the Muslims who don't like it. This world was made for everyone not just them. God made it for everyone to enjoy not just them. Fight for your freedom to speak out. When the media silences you or you become too submissive bad things happen (eg. Fascism).

6.) Be a normal person. Get a fucking life and go get laid. Then you wont be so uptight (advice to the Muslim world). This is what happens when you allow polygamy. You get one douche bag with a harem of women and a whole army of horny dudes who have nothing better to do then go and kill others.

Is it purely coincidental that the citizens of the US (a far wealthier nation than any Islam nation) has a significantly smaller proportion of psychopaths who want to cut heads off and blow others up? Happy people don't want to go and blow themselves up. Desperation and lack of possibilities does this.

The point is, don't be a tool. Don't be used and abused.

Well will reply later on a computer. Too much time to talk on mobile.

O.o more truth...i am so confused lol xD

Movie is very accurate and has been verified by numerous sources, even those of Islamic origin. It candidly portrays the savagery of radical Islam and shows what the liberal western media has been averting from for years. These are the facts:

1.) There is real danger because they hate us much more than we think. They will lie and use any excuse to show otherwise but their actions (those shown in the movie) speak for themselves. Recall the nazi regime and the 1930's. This is no joke. The next 911 is imminent, only it could be much worse this time.

2.) Radical Islam is perhaps the greatest danger to the western civilization since the inception of the nazi extermination protocol.

3.) Because of the ridiculous antisemitic bias of a vast portion of Europe, radical Islam is being used as a tool to destabilize Israel.

4.) What can you do? Don't be a fool. there is no distinction between the violence against an "infidel" in the Koran and the violence against an American or Israeli soldier in the battlefield. They will try and justify it by saying its Jihad or some other bullshit but the fact is violence is violence.

5.) Make sure such movies keep coming out. Fuck the Muslims who don't like it. This world was made for everyone not just them. God made it for everyone to enjoy not just them. Fight for your freedom to speak out. When the media silences you or you become too submissive bad things happen (eg. Fascism).

6.) Be a normal person. Get a fucking life and go get laid. Then you wont be so uptight (advice to the Muslim world). This is what happens when you allow polygamy. You get one douche bag with a harem of women and a whole army of horny dudes who have nothing better to do then go and kill others.

Is it purely coincidental that the citizens of the US (a far wealthier nation than any Islam nation) has a significantly smaller proportion of psychopaths who want to cut heads off and blow others up? Happy people don't want to go and blow themselves up. Desperation and lack of possibilities does this.

The point is, don't be a tool. Don't be used and abused.

*claps*

Movie is very accurate and has been verified by numerous sources, even those of Islamic origin. It candidly portrays the savagery of radical Islam and shows what the liberal western media has been averting from for years. These are the facts:

1.) There is real danger because they hate us much more than we think. They will lie and use any excuse to show otherwise but their actions (those shown in the movie) speak for themselves. Recall the nazi regime and the 1930's. This is no joke. The next 911 is imminent, only it could be much worse this time.

2.) Radical Islam is perhaps the greatest danger to the western civilization since the inception of the nazi extermination protocol.

3.) Because of the ridiculous antisemitic bias of a vast portion of Europe, radical Islam is being used as a tool to destabilize Israel.

4.) What can you do? Don't be a fool. there is no distinction between the violence against an "infidel" in the Koran and the violence against an American or Israeli soldier in the battlefield. They will try and justify it by saying its Jihad or some other bullshit but the fact is violence is violence.

5.) Make sure such movies keep coming out. Fuck the Muslims who don't like it. This world was made for everyone not just them. God made it for everyone to enjoy not just them. Fight for your freedom to speak out. When the media silences you or you become too submissive bad things happen (eg. Fascism).

6.) Be a normal person. Get a fucking life and go get laid. Then you wont be so uptight (advice to the Muslim world). This is what happens when you allow polygamy. You get one douche bag with a harem of women and a whole army of horny dudes who have nothing better to do then go and kill others.

Is it purely coincidental that the citizens of the US (a far wealthier nation than any Islam nation) has a significantly smaller proportion of psychopaths who want to cut heads off and blow others up? Happy people don't want to go and blow themselves up. Desperation and lack of possibilities does this.

The point is, don't be a tool. Don't be used and abused.

Here here! Topic done, Val just pwned the topic.

Movie is very accurate and has been verified by numerous sources, even those of Islamic origin. It candidly portrays the savagery of radical Islam and shows what the liberal western media has been averting from for years. These are the facts:

1.) There is real danger because they hate us much more than we think. They will lie and use any excuse to show otherwise but their actions (those shown in the movie) speak for themselves. Recall the nazi regime and the 1930's. This is no joke. The next 911 is imminent, only it could be much worse this time.

2.) Radical Islam is perhaps the greatest danger to the western civilization since the inception of the nazi extermination protocol.

3.) Because of the ridiculous antisemitic bias of a vast portion of Europe, radical Islam is being used as a tool to destabilize Israel.

4.) What can you do? Don't be a fool. there is no distinction between the violence against an "infidel" in the Koran and the violence against an American or Israeli soldier in the battlefield. They will try and justify it by saying its Jihad or some other bullshit but the fact is violence is violence.

5.) Make sure such movies keep coming out. Fuck the Muslims who don't like it. This world was made for everyone not just them. God made it for everyone to enjoy not just them. Fight for your freedom to speak out. When the media silences you or you become too submissive bad things happen (eg. Fascism).

6.) Be a normal person. Get a fucking life and go get laid. Then you wont be so uptight (advice to the Muslim world). This is what happens when you allow polygamy. You get one douche bag with a harem of women and a whole army of horny dudes who have nothing better to do then go and kill others.

Is it purely coincidental that the citizens of the US (a far wealthier nation than any Islam nation) has a significantly smaller proportion of psychopaths who want to cut heads off and blow others up? Happy people don't want to go and blow themselves up. Desperation and lack of possibilities does this.

The point is, don't be a tool. Don't be used and abused.

omg :O

val..... just nice.....:photo::photo::photo::photo:

now you are sexier than madonna :lol:

Movie is very accurate and has been verified by numerous sources, even those of Islamic origin. It candidly portrays the savagery of radical Islam and shows what the liberal western media has been averting from for years.


No one is denying that Islam is a normal religion (like Christianity and Judaism)

Paradox.

- Islam is not a religion of savagery as you said, but I explained this befor. Some muslim extremities are the ones who you can call them savages not the Islam. And that shows in that I do believe that 9/11 was a terroristic action and I dont say it something of Jihad. Jihad in our religion is to defend Islam and our lands, not to attack others cause they dont believe in Islam. Guys you should read more about Islam and what is it instead of getting wrong information like this.



2.) Radical Islam is perhaps the greatest danger to the western civilization since the inception of the nazi extermination protocol
Small edition : Muslim extremities ( or any other extremities not only muslims ones ) are the greatest danger to western civilization. Dont inculed Islam in this.

Paradox.

- Islam is not a religion of savagery as you said, but I explained this befor. Some muslim extremities are the ones who you can call them savages not the Islam. And that shows in that I do believe that 9/11 was a terroristic action and I dont say it something of Jihad. Jihad in our religion is to defend Islam and our lands, not to attack others cause they dont believe in Islam. Guys you should read more about Islam and what is it instead of getting wrong information like this.



Small edition : Muslim extremities ( or any other extremities not only muslims ones ) are the greatest danger to western civilization. Dont inculed Islam in this.
Zezo, he's saying radical Islam, a.k.a extremists. DER!

Well I dont know the meaning of radical. But this is not the fault of Islam. That's what I am trying to prove.

Have a normal duscussion guys! Or I'll close this thread.

Last warning.

..... well as far as i read now i found some things but dunno... i guess radicals are homos trying to hide their fury behind some phrases into the koran..... doesnt mean that all muslims are bad ppl... is just that theres too much fuckers of those arround them.

with this im not sating im supporting this book, but if some guys thinks that maradonna is god, they have the right to believe in whatever, while dont fuck with other ppl rights, believes or freedom.

Well I dont know the meaning of radical. But this is not the fault of Islam. That's what I am trying to prove.

Zezo but thats the point of the movie I think. The Qu'ran DOES indeed say such things about violence, taken out of context or not, word is still word.

Can you find any anti-violence passages?

Watch him say it's not really violence when you kill your enemy, You're just defending your religion blah blah blah...

BS. Violence is violence, no matter what it's used for.